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Would Vegeta rather Goku have turned SSJ3 instead of concealing it; Vegeta's humiliation
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Topic Started: Apr 11 2014, 07:20 AM (1,780 Views)
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dangerousbob
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Apr 13 2014, 07:07 AM
Post #16
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- AvatarReiko
- Apr 13 2014, 06:50 AM
- dangerousbob
- Apr 13 2014, 06:35 AM
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- Apr 11 2014, 10:14 PM
Would Goku have really needed to fight at all if he had gone SSJ3 though? Surely the display of power [and standing there for a few seconds] would've been enough to end any immediate motivation Vegeta had... and if not, simply knock him out in a single punch.
And like has been said, Goku couldn't care less about it injuring Vegeta's pride.
So, from an in-Universe perspective, why not use it?
He was saving the Energy (and time) to fight Buu. Also its debatable just how much stronger SSJ3 is then Majin SSj2. They both did a number on buu and towards the end of the series the gap is shown to be even smaller. I dont think a SSJ3 goku could one shot a Majin Vegeta. To be honest I think it would be closer to SSJ3 goku fighting fat buu. Where he has a slight edge but its still a struggle. then there is the whole BOG business suggesting that a SSJ2 can be pushed over SSJ3... but yeah the movies. 
I am not too Sure about. Goku's SSJ3 power was so immense that his KI could be felt from the other world, which is really something and shows how powerful he was. Majin Vegeat stood no chance against Buu, yet Goku at SSJ3 bested him. Goku even outright states that if Vegeta couldn't beat him neither could he, but I don't think he was taking SSJ3 into a account. As soon as Goku starts transforming, Vegeta would realise that he was beaten.
Well you answered your own question. Goku said he could not beat Buu because Vegeta could not. (though he later said he probably had a chance). If SSJ3 was that much stronger, there would be no question of it. Though some say this was more Goku trickery into getting the boys to fight. That aside, Buu defeated Majin Vegeta because of his bodies Magic abilities -Vegeta would have killed him otherwise. One of his first attacks was a kill move. Also Vegeta was clearly not intimidated by Fat Buu like he was with other villains when he sensed his power. (Goku was actually more intimidated then Vegeta because he could sense the kid buus power behind Fat Buu). So basically Vegeta was comparing Fat Buus power that he felt to his own. Not knowing of the re-gen. To me that says a battle between majin vegeta and SSJ3 goku would be like the one with Goku and buu. Goku would have a advantage and likely win but it would not be the one sided one punch people think.
Vegeta only lost face when he realized Buu could re gen. The gap between SSJ1 and SSJ2 seems much larger then SSJ2 and 3. And we are talking about SSJ2 Majin. And if we go by the anime, when Goku fights Kid Buu in SSJ2 that helps close this gap as well. Even if it is just the anime (arguing that is none cannon then you have to take into account what happen in Battle of the Gods with a raged SSJ2 actually surpassing SSJ3.  )
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Apr 13 2014, 08:43 AM
Post #17
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Well you answered your own question. Goku said he could not beat Buu because Vegeta could not. (though he later said he probably had a chance). If SSJ3 was that much stronger, there would be no question of it. Though some say this was more Goku trickery into getting the boys to fight.
That was before he revealed Super Saiyan 3, which he had no other choice of doing all circumstances provided.
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That aside, Buu defeated Majin Vegeta because of his bodies Magic abilities -Vegeta would have killed him otherwise.
Of course, but that's the same case that could be made for the gunmen who shot straight through Evil Boo's body.
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Also Vegeta was clearly not intimidated by Fat Buu like he was with other villains when he sensed his power. (Goku was actually more intimidated then Vegeta because he could sense the kid buus power behind Fat Buu). So basically Vegeta was comparing Fat Buus power that he felt to his own. Not knowing of the re-gen.
Vegeta didn't intend on surviving. He knew he was doomed, but he was going to take Boo with him. His fight was one of guilt.
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To me that says a battle between majin vegeta and SSJ3 goku would be like the one with Goku and buu. Goku would have a advantage and likely win but it would not be the one sided one punch people think.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku fought Pure Boo with a barely noticeable advantage, the same Boo who effortlessly trounced Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta whose power shouldn't have been any different than when he was under the Majin spell.
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And if we go by the anime, when Goku fights Kid Buu in SSJ2 that helps close this gap as well. Even if it is just the anime (arguing that is none cannon then you have to take into account what happen in Battle of the Gods with a raged SSJ2 actually surpassing SSJ3. )
That fight wasn't serious. It was essentially a sparring match.
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SaiyanHajime
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Apr 13 2014, 09:45 AM
Post #18
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Vegeta forced Goku to fight by not only threatening but proving that he had no care for killing innocents until Goku agreed. But if Goku had told Vegeta outright that he won't be beaten because he's ascended again I think Vegeta would have demanded proof. I think Vegeta would have still tried before realising it was no use, and then had a mental breakdown.
If Goku had made it known earlier on, before Vegeta's Majin transformation, things may have panned out differently. Vegeta isn't stupid. His interest in fighting Goku isn't out of necessity. When fighting an enemy, Vegeta would go all out and never give up, especially when those he cares about are involved (Gohan, Goku, Bulma, Trunks), but with Goku he doesn't need to. It's just about proving himself stronger, so if he knows there's no chance, he'd rather go away and train some more. I think he'd probably have gone so far as to pull out the tournament. Vegeta wants to know himself that he's stronger. Every time he's taken Goku on, he's been confident that he is. With his enemies, there's been plenty of times that he knows full well that he will loose, but has boldly continued.
Vegeta is going to end out embarrassed regardless of situation, but it's the fact that Goku let him believe he stood a chance that is most hurtful to him. There were times in that battle that Vegeta had the upper hand in their current forms and Vegeta mocked Goku for it. To later find out that if Goku wanted to he could have killed him is a huge boot to the nuts.
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dangerousbob
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Apr 13 2014, 05:35 PM
Post #19
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- Kamikaze Pyro
- Apr 13 2014, 08:43 AM
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Well you answered your own question. Goku said he could not beat Buu because Vegeta could not. (though he later said he probably had a chance). If SSJ3 was that much stronger, there would be no question of it. Though some say this was more Goku trickery into getting the boys to fight.
That was before he revealed Super Saiyan 3, which he had no other choice of doing all circumstances provided.- Quote:
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That aside, Buu defeated Majin Vegeta because of his bodies Magic abilities -Vegeta would have killed him otherwise.
Of course, but that's the same case that could be made for the gunmen who shot straight through Evil Boo's body.- Quote:
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Also Vegeta was clearly not intimidated by Fat Buu like he was with other villains when he sensed his power. (Goku was actually more intimidated then Vegeta because he could sense the kid buus power behind Fat Buu). So basically Vegeta was comparing Fat Buus power that he felt to his own. Not knowing of the re-gen.
Vegeta didn't intend on surviving. He knew he was doomed, but he was going to take Boo with him. His fight was one of guilt.- Quote:
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To me that says a battle between majin vegeta and SSJ3 goku would be like the one with Goku and buu. Goku would have a advantage and likely win but it would not be the one sided one punch people think.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku fought Pure Boo with a barely noticeable advantage, the same Boo who effortlessly trounced Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta whose power shouldn't have been any different than when he was under the Majin spell.- Quote:
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And if we go by the anime, when Goku fights Kid Buu in SSJ2 that helps close this gap as well. Even if it is just the anime (arguing that is none cannon then you have to take into account what happen in Battle of the Gods with a raged SSJ2 actually surpassing SSJ3. )
That fight wasn't serious. It was essentially a sparring match.
A lot of that is a matter of opinion and interpretation of what characters said. Goku knew he could go SSJ3. It was implied that he has gone SSJ3 in otherworld thus he would have known how strong he was. So was he just saying that so the boys would pick up the torch? Or did he not think he could beat Buu until he reflected upon it later. etc
I also looked at Fat Buu about equal with Majin Vegeta, perhaps slightly stronger - the magic giving him a definite edge. Vegeta didn't go all "self sacrifice" until after he found out about Buus magic. He was confident he could kill him before then.But again that is a matter of how you interpret their attitude. Either way my point was that SSJ3 could not one shot a SSJ2 as said by everyone. That SSJ2 is closer to SSJ3 then people think.
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AvatarReiko
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Apr 13 2014, 06:43 PM
Post #20
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- dangerousbob
- Apr 13 2014, 05:35 PM
- Kamikaze Pyro
- Apr 13 2014, 08:43 AM
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Well you answered your own question. Goku said he could not beat Buu because Vegeta could not. (though he later said he probably had a chance). If SSJ3 was that much stronger, there would be no question of it. Though some say this was more Goku trickery into getting the boys to fight.
That was before he revealed Super Saiyan 3, which he had no other choice of doing all circumstances provided.- Quote:
-
That aside, Buu defeated Majin Vegeta because of his bodies Magic abilities -Vegeta would have killed him otherwise.
Of course, but that's the same case that could be made for the gunmen who shot straight through Evil Boo's body.- Quote:
-
Also Vegeta was clearly not intimidated by Fat Buu like he was with other villains when he sensed his power. (Goku was actually more intimidated then Vegeta because he could sense the kid buus power behind Fat Buu). So basically Vegeta was comparing Fat Buus power that he felt to his own. Not knowing of the re-gen.
Vegeta didn't intend on surviving. He knew he was doomed, but he was going to take Boo with him. His fight was one of guilt.- Quote:
-
To me that says a battle between majin vegeta and SSJ3 goku would be like the one with Goku and buu. Goku would have a advantage and likely win but it would not be the one sided one punch people think.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku fought Pure Boo with a barely noticeable advantage, the same Boo who effortlessly trounced Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta whose power shouldn't have been any different than when he was under the Majin spell.- Quote:
-
And if we go by the anime, when Goku fights Kid Buu in SSJ2 that helps close this gap as well. Even if it is just the anime (arguing that is none cannon then you have to take into account what happen in Battle of the Gods with a raged SSJ2 actually surpassing SSJ3. )
That fight wasn't serious. It was essentially a sparring match.
A lot of that is a matter of opinion and interpretation of what characters said. Goku knew he could go SSJ3. It was implied that he has gone SSJ3 in otherworld thus he would have known how strong he was. So was he just saying that so the boys would pick up the torch? Or did he not think he could beat Buu until he reflected upon it later. etc I also looked at Fat Buu about equal with Majin Vegeta, perhaps slightly stronger - the magic giving him a definite edge. Vegeta didn't go all "self sacrifice" until after he found out about Buus magic. He was confident he could kill him before then.But again that is a matter of how you interpret their attitude. Either way my point was that SSJ3 could not one shot a SSJ2 as said by everyone. That SSJ2 is closer to SSJ3 then people think.
That fact that SSJ3 could be sensed from the sacred world of the Kai's shows how much stronger SSJ3 is to SSJ2. Kibito stated that saiyan powers shouldn't be sensed from that far away. SSJ2 couldn't be sensed because the Ki output is significantly weaker. Also, when Goku transformed into SSJ3, the enitire planet started shaking as opposed to previous SSJ2 transformations.
If Vegeta was on the same level as Fat Buu, regardless, he would have been able to damage fat Buu, to the extent that Goku SSJ3 was able to. Furthermore, Goku was able to fight Kid Buu evenly as a SSJ3 whereas Vegeta SSJ2 was absolutely mullered by Kid Buu with ease. Kid Buu went as far as making fun out of him for it as it was clearly evident that Vegeta SSJ2 stood no chance. Based on this we can concluded that is a significant gap between SSJ2 and SSJ3. It is even implied that SSJ3 is on a completely different level from the other SSJ forms
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Apr 13 2014, 09:00 PM
Post #21
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- dangerousbob
- Apr 13 2014, 05:35 PM
- Kamikaze Pyro
- Apr 13 2014, 08:43 AM
- Quote:
-
Well you answered your own question. Goku said he could not beat Buu because Vegeta could not. (though he later said he probably had a chance). If SSJ3 was that much stronger, there would be no question of it. Though some say this was more Goku trickery into getting the boys to fight.
That was before he revealed Super Saiyan 3, which he had no other choice of doing all circumstances provided.- Quote:
-
That aside, Buu defeated Majin Vegeta because of his bodies Magic abilities -Vegeta would have killed him otherwise.
Of course, but that's the same case that could be made for the gunmen who shot straight through Evil Boo's body.- Quote:
-
Also Vegeta was clearly not intimidated by Fat Buu like he was with other villains when he sensed his power. (Goku was actually more intimidated then Vegeta because he could sense the kid buus power behind Fat Buu). So basically Vegeta was comparing Fat Buus power that he felt to his own. Not knowing of the re-gen.
Vegeta didn't intend on surviving. He knew he was doomed, but he was going to take Boo with him. His fight was one of guilt.- Quote:
-
To me that says a battle between majin vegeta and SSJ3 goku would be like the one with Goku and buu. Goku would have a advantage and likely win but it would not be the one sided one punch people think.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku fought Pure Boo with a barely noticeable advantage, the same Boo who effortlessly trounced Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta whose power shouldn't have been any different than when he was under the Majin spell.- Quote:
-
And if we go by the anime, when Goku fights Kid Buu in SSJ2 that helps close this gap as well. Even if it is just the anime (arguing that is none cannon then you have to take into account what happen in Battle of the Gods with a raged SSJ2 actually surpassing SSJ3. )
That fight wasn't serious. It was essentially a sparring match.
A lot of that is a matter of opinion and interpretation of what characters said. Goku knew he could go SSJ3. It was implied that he has gone SSJ3 in otherworld thus he would have known how strong he was. So was he just saying that so the boys would pick up the torch? Or did he not think he could beat Buu until he reflected upon it later. etc I also looked at Fat Buu about equal with Majin Vegeta, perhaps slightly stronger - the magic giving him a definite edge. Vegeta didn't go all "self sacrifice" until after he found out about Buus magic. He was confident he could kill him before then.But again that is a matter of how you interpret their attitude. Either way my point was that SSJ3 could not one shot a SSJ2 as said by everyone. That SSJ2 is closer to SSJ3 then people think.
Regardless of any possibly interpretive reasons, what isn't interpretive is the sheer fact that Goku fought evenly with Pure Boo as a Super Saiyan 3, and this same Boo thrashed Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta whilst toying around. Vegeta didn't succeed in landing even one hit.
Vegeta admitted outright that Goku and Pure Boo were stronger than he imagined, and he couldn't keep up with them in the slightest. There's no way around that. Super Saiyan 2 doesn't compare to Super Saiyan 3 power-wise.
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4:39 PM Jul 13